John Odgren
Over at TheTrenchcoat Chronicles I’ve been talking about the stabbing at Lincoln-Sudbury high in Mass. that left a teen my the name of James Aleson dead. The suspects name is John Odgren. Thanks to one of my more conspiracy minded commenters, Starviego (but he’s one hell of a researcher), we have John Odgren’s MySpace. Doesn’t really look like the MySpace of a killer, except for this blog entry…
I’m glad to fianlly turn sixteen. I can finally legally drive and buy hunting knives in Massachusetts. Of course, in both categories I’m rather hesitant, as I’m nervous that I might begin to channel Tommy Versetti while I’m in the process of doing either thing.
Tommy Versetti is the protagonist in the videogame Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. I think the comment was made tongue in cheek but it turned out to be prophetic.
Tags: james-aleson, john-odgren, Lincoln-Sudbury-High, massachusetts, stabbing
138 opinions for John Odgren
David
Jan 22, 2007 at 10:28 am
This is such a sad story. My heart goes out to the families of all the victims in this terrible, violent act.
dick johnson
Mar 11, 2007 at 1:21 am
what a douche. and the media links it to tdt.net?
bastards, all of you!!!!
William Raih
May 6, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Why does Autism give John the intention to kill an innocent student like James? Didn’t he know it was against the law to kill? Why was he interested in violence? Why did James deserve to die? Why would John kill James? What was he thinking? What didn’t he understand in life? Why should people with this disorder look like convicted felons? For what we know of Asperger’s Syndrome, it is a mild form of Autism and Hyperactivity Disorder. It involves Obsessive Conversation Topics Or Fixations On Certain Things, Inappropriate Social Intereactions, Behavior Problems, Having Clever Knowledge, Misunderstanding, Lack Of Skills, And Unable To Cooperate In Activities And Events, etc. He Didn’t Realize What He Was Up Against!
William Raih
Jun 5, 2007 at 9:02 am
He didn’t kill out of anger or passion, he was just confused with the fantasy and reality of life. People get confused, and it’s strange this one got confused in this type of way.
juls
Oct 16, 2007 at 8:44 pm
confusion?
you think James Alenson’s murder is because of confusion?!? no jack came into my school that day, and went after James for no reason at all, but to kill. it was not confusion-it was muder, and don’t think it was anything less
Jen
Oct 19, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Juls-
I was a teacher of his before at another school. I completely agree with you. He has no excuse. He knew what he was doing and he planned it ahead of time. That is first degree murder.
Anonymous
Jan 2, 2008 at 6:04 pm
That Odgren guy’s a ****ing douche! He was in one of my classes before he did the murder, I thought he was alright, I didn’t know him that well, that is, until he DOES THE ****ING MURDER IN THE GOD**** BATHROOM!!!! Come on, even if it’s that crap of him being confused between fantasy and reality, (which even if true is not a legit excuse), I think he should have at least known about not bringing a weapon to school. And I heard the little sh!t was crying before being arrested because he didn’t want James to die. And is it any better that he must have then just wanted to hurt him, because people are not just alright after you ****ing stab them! I swear, if I was in the bathroom with that little sh!t and James Alenson was never there and he stabbed me, I would have ****ing beat the living hell out of him before he had the chance to inflict the second fatal wound, concentrating especially on disarming him first, then as soon as he was unconscious I’d have rushed to my house office ASAP before he got up and continued his killing spree while tending my wound, and would have probably been recognized as a hero who stopped a would be murderer (actually while beating him up I would have loved to take his knife and fatally stab him on the spot, but then I’d be the murderer in jail, him the victim). Heck, it’s a shame the police didn’t shoot and kill him on the spot when they all arrived!
Anonymous
Jan 2, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Me again, I just decided to read an article about him right now, I knew about him not wanting James to die, but didn’t know all of the story. I found out he said it when a cop was questioning him in the principal’s office. He was saying, “Is he OK, I don’t want him to die.” Jeez what is this kid??!!! And the news article I read is humanizing him. For crying out loud, I know I said this before, but he stabbed the other kid, if he really didn’t want James to die, he shouldn’t have stabbed him, especially not in the fricking heart! And if he didn’t want to kill him, would just wounding him be any more justified? NOOO!!!! I hope the pr1ck burns in hell!
brian
Feb 7, 2008 at 3:43 pm
you are all horrible horrible people
Anonymous
Feb 9, 2008 at 3:45 pm
No I’m not, Jack is
Anonymous
Feb 9, 2008 at 3:47 pm
And why am I a horrible person when I say awful things about a murderer?
Laurel
Feb 10, 2008 at 12:34 am
john was my brothers close friend when they were in like 1st grade and even then the kid was really screwed up. i went to school with him for a few years and when he was in 6th grade he ran away from school and starting crying becuase he got a B on his report card. and he was just so awkward around people. he would always read really creepy murder books and stuff like that. obviosly he is sick and i dont know if he should be punished or not but i am not very suprised that john may have done this.
brian
Feb 10, 2008 at 12:16 pm
your all horrible people because if you went to my school where it actually happened you would realize that this kid has a lot of problems and that he is sick. It is not fair to just sit here bashing him. Nobody at LS does and we know alot more about it than you do you fucking asses
Jen
Feb 11, 2008 at 2:31 am
Dear Little Brian–
I think I do know a LOT more than you… I read his files, I worked with him one on one, I met his family. I had to chase him throught the fing woods when his little ass decided to run from the school. I KNOW he was fing sick. I also know he should be locked up for the rest of his life. So he can’t ever do this again. He will do this again, if he is not kept locked up. It is too bad MA doesn’t have the death penalty. He should get it. If you can’t understand all of this I suggest you take some Government classes at school, if you still don’t maybe you should volunteer to be stabbed a few time, oncein the heart and then see how you feel, til then, keep your mouth shut, Kiddo. You are too immature to know what you are talking about.
brian
Feb 11, 2008 at 10:14 pm
hi jen
i hope that you get aids tonight and fucking die.
first off the death penalty is fucked up alot. Second off i dont believe that you worked with him one on one because if you did you wouldnt be saying all this stuff. your calling me immature and than saying his little ass and “fing” truth of the matter was you werent at the school january 19th, i was. you werent there when the people who are in charge of the school talked to us about it. I was. Im not saying dont lock him up, im just saying that he shouldnt be in a fucking prison and mental ward would be alot better. Dont you dare tell me to shut up. Dont you dare call me kiddo. and dont u dare critize me again you fucking cunt
Dan
Feb 12, 2008 at 7:45 am
Brian,
Clearly Jen is not a teacher as she states. Clearly she is extremely immature and petty. And that stuff about you being stabbed in the heart, damn. So violent and stupid. Why then would you let her provoke you to use such ugly language? Can’t you see she’s not worth lowering yourself like that?
When you come onto a blog like this and want to argue a young person’s perspective, it would help your side to show some control and judgement. Up until “cunt,” Jen was just weighing down the anti-John side. When a dumbass is defending a perspective, people kind of question why they are on the dumbass’s side of the argument.
To be effective in anything you do, don’t let small people drag you down. Insist on better from yourself. “Cunt” is hurtful to women.
brian
Feb 12, 2008 at 4:19 pm
dan your right and thank you for realizing my point. yeah i probably shouldnt have used the c word though she will get no apology for me. i was getting worked up as i was writing it and added that pretty blatent personal insult.
it did take away from my point somewhat.
Jen
Feb 12, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Ok LITTLE KIDDO Brian,
I’m telling you that maybe you should think more about the family that has only a grave to look at. At least John’s parents can see him still. I hope he never feels human touch or love or anythig of the sort ever againg in his putrid life. I hope when he spends the rest of his life in prison, that he becomes someones “little friend”. In there, he has no protection and is too scrawny and crazy for the other prisoners to put up with him.
And to Danno- I am an old teacher of his, knew the kid since he was in fifth grade, and knew his parents. They allowed it all to happen. John, never went by the name Jack until he changed schools, interesting… Anyhow, the brat was nuts and his parents were even nuttier. Who would feed the kid Stephen King, CSI classes, and let him walk around weilding a machette? A collection of knives? Think about that you two bozos…
I care a lot more about the general and normal population of the school than I do for crazy brats like LITTLE Brian and “Jack”.
*Ooooppppsss, how dare I?*
Anonymous
Feb 12, 2008 at 6:16 pm
I’m an LS student just like Brian, and I was friends with Jack before the murder, but even a friend of his is now hating him for what he is, a psychopath who, like Jen says, should be denied any human love for the rest of his life and should become another criminal’s little friend. Burn in hell Jack.
Anonymous
Feb 12, 2008 at 6:20 pm
give it up Jen
teachers are MATURE adults who kids look up to.
just by looking at your choice of words tell me that you are clearly not a teacher. if you were, you would be a pretty crappy one. I mean i can say ” I was his teacher, I met his parents.” too, but i wasn’t his teacher, and I didn’t meet his parents.
“I hope he never feels human touch or love or anythig of the sort ever againg in his putrid life.”
How cruel are you? stop bashing him
(btw Brian, I live in Sudbury, i’m on your side)
Dan
Feb 12, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Jeez, if Jen is really a teacher, she needs her license yanked. But seriously, I’ve know a lot of teachers who were somewhat off the mark and Jen is way too far gone to possibly get let alone retain a professional job with kids, not with those attitudes. If she ever did get a paraprofessional job, she’d soon betray this disturbed demeanor of hers. Maybe that’s why she’s so bitter.
Jen
Feb 13, 2008 at 6:52 am
I am a very good teacher, I teach kids in the inner city how to read and write when no one else will bother. As for you Can you haven’t mentioned a thing that makes you qualified to weigh in on anything. Maybe you have no children? I can’t possibly think that you do. Because if you did you wouldn’t want him to go to the Odgren loser to go to school with any of them, but maybe be the way you are, you would. Any by the way you can’t get your license yanked for opinions you dumnbass.
And perhaps you have no idea how difficult it is to get a license… Try to get one, we’ll see.
And your first sentence is WAY to long…almost four lines. Total run on.
Why don’t you get a life dear… scoot, scoot…
Jen
Feb 13, 2008 at 6:57 am
And for All of you Bubblehead Supporters of “Jacko” lets remember James and read this to remember exactly what the little beast Jack did:
Wednesday, March 7. 2007
Court documnets on John Odgren
Prosecutor outlines L-S murder suspect John Odgren’s history of violence:
I’m linking this article because it has an interesting PDF file. It’s entitled “The Commonwealth of Massachusetts v. John Odgren”. I found it compelling and hard to put down. Let me give you the highlights for those of you who aren’t PDF enabled.
Odgren had January 19th, the day of the murder, marked on his calendar.
He was accepted by other students and there was no evidence of bullying.
He took particular joy in the blood splatter experiments in his forensic class.
Odgren threatened a student with a screwdriver.
He chased another student with a sharpened object which according to the article was a shard of glass.
The knife used to murder James Alenson was a 13 inch kitchen carving knife.
When Police Crime Scene Services arrived he excitedly offered to help them.
He made jokes with police and investigators.
He said that he didn’t even know the kid’s name (Alenson).
If I didn’t know any better, and I do, I’d swear this was a premeditated murder on a random victim.
Dan
Feb 13, 2008 at 8:29 am
Ah, so you’re a literacy volunteer. That makes sense. Many of them, however well-intentioned, are unqualified.
A teacher would know you can’t spout some opinions and remain certified. Of course, different states have different rules. Wishing violence on an emotional kid who challenges you is one of them. Thank god the internet is anonymous. Or is it?
Next time you volunteer to teach writing, know that length does not constitute a run-on sentence. Also, conventions are legitimately discarded for many purposes. This is one of them. You might also check out William Faulkner. He was a much-lauded American writer.
Anyone capable of getting a four year degree may get teaching cert. Many follow that route and find they should not work with children. When they realize they do not have the compassion, patience, understanding or insight to work with young people, they do an admirable thing by finding other work rather than subjecting kids to their bitterness.
As you figured out, some of the writers here are young people. They are confused about what John did. People are often confused when people who seem like nice guys do awful things. But even friends of John aren’t defending what he did. People who know him defend him when people say he was evil. Sounds like maybe they’re right.
If you truly are permitted close contact with children in a way that might shape their ideas, you should know that young people cannot be held to adult standards, especially not in the feelings they have.
You need to know, young people need adults to be models. It’s scary for a kid when an adult behaves the way you have. That’s why we had to assure him that you are a sad example of maturity.
Dan
Feb 13, 2008 at 8:52 am
Brian,
In enumerating John’s offenses above, Jen has shown that you’re probably right. John probably was “sick” in a way. It sounds like there were connections his brain just couldn’t make. And with the way his brain processed, someone should have curbed his fascination with violence long ago. People I’ve known with Aspergers need things to be perfectly concrete. They need things laid out very plainly, even behavioral expectations. They do not learn through subtleties like you do. They need everything their brain wires in to be consciously constructed.
A teacher returned a knife? Another knew he liked bloody spatter? The school knew he chased a kid with a sharp object? This is a joke, right? Kids like this cannot function among the general population. The parent of the dead child should sue the school immediately.
The school did a grave disservice to John too. He should have never been in a situation where such an atrocity would be possible.
Sounds like maybe Jen was a one-to-one paraprofessional with John in the past. Seems plausible. She’s provided an excellent example of the school district’s ongoing misdeeds. They hired a person with her attitudes and skills to work with John. She says” I had to chase him throught the fing woods when his little ass decided to run from the school.” Is she kidding!?!? Is the school kidding?!?! That’s her example of his bad behavior? That is perfectly typical behavior for a child like John. In good classrooms, classrooms that could have helped John, those incidents are expected.
If John had people with Jen’s skill set, finesse, attitudes and anger issues working with John throughout his “education,” he never stood a chance. Far worse, James Aleson never stood a chance.
Trench
Feb 13, 2008 at 9:28 am
Since everyone is so interested on this topic I’ll let you in on a little secret. I’m covering it in more detail at one of my other sites.
http://thetrenchcoat.com/categories/67-Lincoln-Sudbury
Dan
Feb 13, 2008 at 10:23 am
Wow. Thanks. The school should be in deep shit.
The psychologist returned John’s knife. Holy shit. I thought most schools in the US had a policy to call police when a weapon is confiscated. I can think of many cases where calling the police would be a great help to a kid like this. As Trench said, John was testing the waters. John (and James Aleson) might well have benfited from John being locked up for a week. Then the repurcussion for even the suggestion of violence would have been written on his brain.
I can’t think of a reason why he’d have amnesia, unless he’d simply blocked it so hard. Certainly no reason related to Aspergers. In my limited experience with Aspergers, their memories seem to be uncommonly precise.
Parents of kids with Aspergers have every reason to take issue. Aspergers is in no way related to violence. However, Aspergers is characterized by obsessive interests that become deeply and irresistably ingrained. How the hell would the adults in this situation allow violence to become one of John’s obsessions?
“Poor social skills” is only a characteristic of Aspergers. While I don’t think understanding of the mechanism has progressed beyond theory, it’s safe to safe these people are organically hard wired differently. They’re not neurotypical. Social interactions of any sort, from greeting strangers to violence, must be intentionally taught.
The reason for a mental hospital instead of jail would be that hopefully people, like orderlies, there would know how to treat him. Jail would definitely be cruel and unusual punishment for him.
Special needs are not the same as mental illness, but a special need is an organic limitation. When we decided to stop leaving abnormal babies on hillsides, we committed to care for people with special needs.
brian
Feb 13, 2008 at 4:47 pm
holy shit i dont check the site for a day and everything goes crazy! ok look. I go to Lincoln Sudbury Regional High School im in the same grade as John. I didnt know john i recognized him when it happened and i didnt know james like most people. He was new. My school has a reputation for being very good, our teachers are amazing (aka jen does not work here) and we offer very special courses that most schools dont have a great program for kids with learning disabilites etc. Jen i know that you think you know everything because your older than me. If you really are a teacher i pray for all the kids that you teach, and you would know that you can learn from kids. You wouldn tbe putting me down for speaking my opinion which differs with yours. You are a really hurtful person with a lot of anger. The knife was not thirteen inches i saw it. I also heard my principal speak to my school. I saw the sobbing kids walking around the hallway, and i learned alot about what happened before i started speaking about it. John is sick. He is a very very sick individual aspergers aside when you kill somebody there is something very wrong with you. And he does not deserve to be out in the open. However if he was in a place that could help him mentally and restrain him it would be good. Jail will only make it worse because he has no social skills. Jen it hurts me so much to see that your thinking this way because nobody in my school does.there are a few people who blame him but the day after it happened everybody wrote notes to both john and james’ family. You are a really truly awful person and i would appreciate it if you didnt talk here anymore. Stay at your house alone with nobody for the rset of your little miserable life. ANd please for god sakes dont infect anymore children with your evilness. Dan i dont really know whos side your on anymore but thank you for being here and being a mediator. And whoever lived in sudbury who was siding with me thank you as well. Maybe we can get together sometime and chill or something
Laurie
Feb 13, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Wow. Brian, good for you. You show empathy and compassion well beyond your years. These qualities may cause you a lot of frustration as you grow, because of people like Jen and awful acts of evil, like thisone.
My heart goes out to the victims family. In my opinion, the murderer’s parents are just as responsible for what happened, as is the school district. How many other kids are walking around with these types of symptoms and no one is paying attention? Hello???
Haven’t we learned anything?
brian
Feb 13, 2008 at 7:11 pm
i would like to say that although the school did screw up, he shouldnt have been there, however i think that it is a good thing to to allow kids who have had issues in the past come to a school that gives them a chance. Obviously in johns case that was wrong however my school system is a good one and i think that needs to be voiced
brian
Feb 13, 2008 at 7:11 pm
and thanks laurie
Jen
Feb 13, 2008 at 9:38 pm
I’m going to repeat myself and say that I brought up “Where were John’s parent’s?” Brian, how did you not know all of the information published, it’s been out a long time. I have been posting on this site a lot longer than you so, maybe you should go away, sweetheart. And again Dan, I ask you, what makes you qualified to agree with Brian, or to discuss anything having to do with this case?
brian
Feb 13, 2008 at 9:45 pm
what makes you qualified. and please dont be so condescending.
Dan
Feb 14, 2008 at 1:18 am
Brian,
Jeez, you scared the crap out of me. Have you read other parts of this blog? A lot of it is about internet predators. If you are inviting Sudbury people to get together and chill with you, I’m assuming you’ll run it by your parents or guardians, yes? You would not believe the creeps you can find on the internet. Or rather, I bet you know better than I do. So please be careful. Us old folks worry.
You’re right, schools are complex entities. A good school can drop the ball a few times and create dire consequences.
It’s wonderful to hear you say you think special needs should be in mainstream schools. I completely agree with you. If a school is going to have them there, the school needs to be highly capable of it.
Dan
Feb 14, 2008 at 1:29 am
Damn, I’m going to get in trouble with my militant young disability advocate/language tyrant, er, shepard who’s been reading this…
“Them”, as stated above, is us.
Though a child’s actions might make him or her lose the priviledge, all kids deserve to go to the neighborhood school everyone else does.
It’s the school’s job to meet the needs of all kids, regardless of what those needs might be.
Dan
Feb 14, 2008 at 1:33 am
Jen,
What qualifies me is my concern and interest as a citizen.
If you’re looking for my resume, well, it appears we may make up whatever we please where that is concerned.
Anger management, Jen, “sweetheart.” Get some that doesn’t involve kids.
Jen
Feb 14, 2008 at 7:27 am
So Dan-
You have no qualifications whatsoever, except you agree with a pimply facedr loser kid who still isn’t capable of makeing an informed dicision because he hasn’t read the news. Great Choice! Have kids, send them to school, and then worry about them getting stabbed by a kid like Odgren. Maybe then you can take off your “Rose” colored Glasses”
Jen
Feb 14, 2008 at 7:28 am
*making
Jen
Feb 14, 2008 at 7:38 am
“Though a child’s actions might make him or her lose the priviledge, all kids deserve to go to the neighborhood school everyone else does.” says Dan
John lived in Princeton not Licoln Sudbury. John’s parents consistently wanted the school district to pay for the highest cost programs they could find in the state, not something more resonable. Having him go to school at McClean Hospital? PLEASE. Only if they want to pay the bill. Maybe alll the parents of LS are ok with John, but the people of Princeton who knew him, are just glad to be done with him…
Dan
Feb 14, 2008 at 8:37 am
My point was, one doesn’t need qualifications to discuss this here. Here we have equal voice.
Ok, Jen. I’m a child psychologist. I’m certified to teach in more than one area, though to be fair, one area got grandfathered in. I’ve worked with kids for decades. The bulk of my experience is with troubled kids. I’ve often worked with sexual assault victims, and to a much lesser extent, offenders. In recent years I’ve been fortunate enough to get to counsel “average” kids. A minor specialty is people with both higher than average IQs and special needs, mostly CP and autism. I’ve worked directly with 9 kids with Aspergers. I’ve advised on others.
I read everything before I stated my opinion that the adults in John’s life created a situation that permitted this to happen. When hiring people like you and a psychologist who would hand a blade to this kid, the school set this up.
I have kids. They came to classrooms where I worked, one often. That child saw lots of running from school. It’s common. And that child saw me roughed up in a restraint (now therapeutic hold in places it’s still used).
If I was a parent there and my kid told me about the screwdriver or shard of glass, I would call the school to let them know I’d called the police. It’s assault. They are required to keep kids safe.
You quoted me. Clearly John forfeited his priviledge to attend a mainstream school long before he stabbed someone.
And the bill for schooling him. Our society has decided on rights for all people. Education is one of them. Different needs, different costs. besides, parents are rarely capable of raising a kid like John all by themselves. Going to school, receiving specialized treatment, is meant in part to prevent such egregious mishandling, thereby greatly reducing the risk to society. It’s practical as well as compassionate. Jen, you just said James Aleson’s life wasn’t worth the price of sending John to whatever hospital. Think about it.
Though officially it’s the school’s fault, everyone who made mistakes or ineptly handled John shares culpability. That means you too Jen. When you encountered the nasty hardness you have in your heart for kids, you should have found other employment.
You need to stop calling Brain names. It’s beneath even you. And his responses have far exceeded yours in many areas, but most notably the humanity of them.
Jen
Feb 14, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Gee, Dan, I don’t believe any of the BS you are now spewing. It seems you can’t read between the lines. I know that I am a great teacher, I care deeply about my students. So deeply that I would not want John anywhere near them. End of discussion.
Laurie
Feb 14, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Jen - you may have a good point, but it gets lost in what you write to other people, just because they do not agree with you.
Hopefully, one of the staff where you work will come across this blog and see what you have written.
I know I would not want you near my kid, with or without special needs.
Anonymous
Feb 14, 2008 at 7:35 pm
BS!
‘Great teacher?’
How do you greet your kids in the morning?
“Hello you bunch of pimply faced losers!”
Dan
Feb 14, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Jen, have you ever noticed how people who are distructive to children often profess great care for them? Listen to abusive parents when they are arrested. They weep for how much they love their kids. And I’m certain they think they do. Love can be fucked up.
In this anonymous forum, you’ve betrayed your heart. It’s scary to think of you talking to kids.
brian
Feb 14, 2008 at 11:06 pm
i am perpetually disguisted by jen. I have said it before i will say it again. How do you consider yourself a good teacher when your shutting down kids on the net. Come on Jen. Your so unwilling to look at anybody elses views. What is your school system i would really love to email them and tell them that you have been doing all this online.
brian
Feb 14, 2008 at 11:07 pm
I agree Dan.
Anna
Feb 15, 2008 at 1:04 am
hey jen!
so wait, if your a teacher, why have you spelled so many words wrong?
resonable- reasonable
parent’s- should be parents in that context
makeing- making
dicision- decision
the fing woods- that one made me chuckle, what teacher says “f-ing”
the list goes on…
okay jen seriously, you are making yourself look like a complete asshole. you have no idea what the students at LS went through and are still going through. if i were you, i would stop writing all of your immature bitchy comments. get over your ridiculously big ego and go away
k thanks!
ps brian every word you have said is genius.
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 5:55 pm
I think you are all idiots. I wasn’t the one who started all of the shit on this site. If you ever learned to read at your fabulous LS schools, you would have seen:
“brian
Feb 10, 2008 at 12:16 pm
your all horrible people because if you went to my school where it actually happened you would realize that this kid has a lot of problems and that he is sick. It is not fair to just sit here bashing him. Nobody at LS does and we know alot more about it than you do you fucking asses”
That is where it began. I am not threatened by any of your, “If the school I worked at ever found out…” bullshit. Be my guest. I’m sorry we DO NOT get paid enoough to deal with peices of shit like John. I would never risk my life for that little bastard. Any other kid yes, but a big hell no for him.
Oh yeah– Hey ANNA- if you want to attack me on grammatical errors you might want to fucking check your own… DUMBASS…
“so wait, if your a teacher, why have you spelled so many words wrong?”: your= you are actually meaning the words you are, therefore it is the contration you’re. Goin FUCK off, somewhere else “cunt”, as Brian so eloquently put it. Or as you put it “brian every word you have said is genius.” You didn’t even capitalize your sentences, what a bitch you are!!! You’re gonna go to hell, in a handbasket!
All I can say is the majority of people do not agree with you. Most people are tired of kids getting away with crime and claiming stupid shit. Like Jacko claiming he doesn’t remember the incident. He had been planning and thinking about it for a long time, I am sure he plays it back in his mind constantly.
His parents let him have a KNIFE COLLECTION. They should be tried as well. The fucking kid walked through the woods with a god damn machete, the whole summer long. He had been banned from other school programs because his behavior was so poor. I don’t care what the fuck is wrong with him. If he can’t get his act together and not hurt other people and do crazy shit like threaten violence, then throw him in jail and throw away the key and let him die in prison.
Take a look at other articles peeps. A lot of other people feel the same way. Just open those closed little eyes of yours.
Danny-boy maybe you are the one that needs a new career, try walking in a teacher’s shoes for a day… bet you couldn’t do it in a million years… EVER
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:07 pm
“Well I am fromt that town. James Aleson was a kind funny nice kid. He was also a quite kid. John on the other hand had no friends and he wore the weirds shit to school. He talked about killing everyday. (Why dident anyone tell on him or something!?!) James was also new to the school. So it probubly was that when James walked into the B-room he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. John was proubly tomrmeted so much from other students in the school. That he said that Iam going to kill some one 2 day. It happen to be the most inicent kid probuly in the school.
I dont know them really at all. I just now that these things are all true becuase every one is saying that. Eveb the kids that know/seen James and John. Also I dont even know her daughter who is in my grade.
I hope that John goes to jail for life. I dont thing it was his stupid Ashberhers. Cause if he was like that every day well……
James Aleson Rest in peace!!
#5 kyle (Homepage) on 2007-02-02 18:38 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:09 pm
“I’d like to give James “a chance to return to society”. Aww, shucks, he’s dead… Murdered actually…
It’s great the way you try to turn this against Sudbury, “Maybe they [Sudbury residents] will start to look at special needs kids being tormented”. Really nice the way you want to make Sudbury - the town that actually embraced John - the murderer - in its naive and welcoming midst.
Lock him up. He can get treatment in jail.
#5.1.1.1.1 Nancy on 2007-02-06 12:33 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:14 pm
“This is perhaps the most mean-spirited and twisted statement I have come across in the blogoshere regarding this case
And I wasn’t even trying that hard. Sorry but I have no sympathy for murderers.
#4.2 Trench (Homepage) on 2007-03-06 13:13 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:16 pm
“Interesting but bringing a knife to school is still illegal. And if he had a history of violent outbursts his parents shouldn’t have allowed him to have the knife anyway.
#1.1 Trench (Homepage) on 2007-03-04 14:04 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:17 pm
“It doesn’t matter if he had a collection of knives or not. The fact that he had just one knife with a history of violent outbursts is scary enough. One witness outside the school also said that he carried a machete around his neighborhood.
And no I don’t want to simply nail a kid. I want the prosecution to nail a murderer.
By the way, I don’t see you presenting any facts.
#2.1.1.1.1 Trench (Homepage) on 2007-03-06 13:09 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:18 pm
“i want odgren and his parents to get the death penalty
#3 odgren hater on 2007-03-07 13:02 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“I’m glad there’s sexual predators in prison who would LOVE having this kid in their prison. Life in prison alone is just a slap on the wrist.
#1.1.1.1 carl on 2007-03-08 00:59 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:21 pm
“Are you fucking kidding me, not only is this kid a retard(all retards should be killed at birth), but this kid killed somone. Due to pussy liberals, people don’t want kids getting the death penalty. I wish this retard could get the death penalty!
#1.1.1 carl on 2007-03-08 00:55 (Reply) “
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:22 pm
“The only published reference to ‘teasing’ of John Odgren at Lincoln-Sudbury LS has been in the context of him being teased for wearing a trench coat. There has been NO (I repeat NO) report of bullying at Lincoln-Sudbury. (At previous schools, but NO report at Lincoln-Sudbury).
Also, note ‘teasing’ is VERY different from ‘bullying’. If you believe a student can’t be ‘teased’, that student does not belong in a mainstream setting. Period.
Teasing does not justify killing. If the system is so inept of so liberally minded that it cannot protect innocent victims from retarded people, then we should err on the side of protecting those innocent people.
As for John Odgren: jail forever. I echo the sentiment that it’s too bad the death penalty does not apply. Sorry to say, but James Alenson was BRUTALLY KILLED.
#1.2 Nancy on 2007-03-09 13:27 (Reply)”
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:23 pm
“Well, I honestly think the thing about him being “teased” at school is a copout. I was teased in school too, along with millions of other kids when we were growing up. Didn’t make me a murderer. Sure, it bothered me, and affected me, but not to be a murderer. If anything, it gave me a perspective on bullies of all ages, and in all walks of life. I dealt with it, and I didn’t have the “luxury” of being doped up on drugs or whatnot…
I don’t know. It seems like “Johnny” was living a pretty “easy” life. He lived in Princeton, went to school in Sudbury, had the “privilege” of “enjoying” blood spatter from dead animals… This hardly sounds like a “deprived” child. I think he probably Should be locked up, at least for a good number of years until he realizes how horrible his crime was, and feels REAL remorse over it…
#2 StraightShooter2 on 2007-03-15 16:06 (Reply) “
Laurie
Feb 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Wow.
But there for the grace of god, go I…..
brian
Feb 15, 2008 at 9:41 pm
i honestly just sat down and prayed to god that you would die. Jen your a disguisting human being. Here’s how i picture you tell me if i am far off. Your really fat. You life in your parents basement. You havent been fucked in five years. You love arguing. You vote republican. your getting way older. Your really fat. You hate every one. You know everyone hates you but you dont talk about it. You cry most nights of the week. far off? Is this really the way to vent out all your anger? I am telling you that i am at the school and i knwo more people from teh school not the town the school and nobody hates him. I honestly invite you to come to the school for a day and talk to people. I have just spent a semester making a video on school violence. You can come watch it. Honestly come to LS for a day. We know your not a teacher anyway so it wont be hard to get a day off. Do hookers make their own hours?
Jen
Feb 15, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Cute you mindless little fuckface, I’m sure with your attitude you made a fabulous movie about violence in schools. Especially considering you worship John Odgren. Maybe you could start your own cult. You said you prayed? To what? Are you a god damn terrorist? That would make sense then… I wouldn’t care to visit your school under any circumstances, if there are little peices of shit like you walking around, thinking he is Mr. Super cool in 9th grade. Wasn’t one of the ten commandments “Thou Shall not Kill”– Guess that one doesn’t apply to John… Why because he is a fuckin’ degenerate? And so are his parents and litte fuck ups like yourself who don’t have the faintest idea about life. You agreeable friend Dan has proved himself to be an asswipe too, in several other threads, so…
Little pimply faced brat, pull your head out of your ass, and get a clue!!!
Catriona
Feb 15, 2008 at 11:00 pm
as a person with Asperger’s I do not condone John’s actions but I can understand them. Aspies in prison is a high number (this is my As obsession!!) due to their lack of social skills, failure to understand consequences (as opposed to right and wrong), desperate to make friends and anger at the world. ASperger’s is an incredibly isolating condition and for those saying this is no excuse for killing i agree hbut find some of your comments offensive.
Dan
Feb 16, 2008 at 9:22 am
Brian, is all that necessary? You just let Jen bait you. After so many have praised your sophistication, why let Jen, with her limitations, be the one who gets to you? How could she have power like that considering all she’s said?
You will meet people like Jen in your life. Couldn’t you think of a better way to handle her?
Catriona, good to hear from you. Do you think “anger at the world” is characteristic? I’ve only worked with young people, (though I’ve encountered a few people I guessed were to old to receive the diagnosis!) To me it always seems that the direction of the anger has to do with the tools the kid has been given. And often it’s pure frustration. Even when kids lash out, it seems like inward anger at it’s core sparked by overwhelming frustration. (”no one understands, I can’t seem to be effective…”) It just never seems like anger at the world to me. What do you think?
Of course, most kids have those times when the world heaps on the message “you’re a loser” and they let’s it pile on, then have a burst of retaliation when they have reason to feel capable and desireable.
Disability advocates taught me it’s disrespectful to say “autistics.” The correct way is “people with autism” because a disability is not a person’s defining characteristic. What are the thoughts behind “Aspies?”
Jen
Feb 16, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Brian you said:
“i honestly just sat down and prayed to god that you would die. Jen your a disguisting human being. Here’s how i picture you tell me if i am far off. Your really fat. You life in your parents basement. You havent been fucked in five years. You love arguing. You vote republican. your getting way older. Your really fat. You hate every one. You know everyone hates you but you dont talk about it. You cry most nights of the week. far off? Is this really the way to vent out all your anger? I am telling you that i am at the school and i knwo more people from teh school not the town the school and nobody hates him. I honestly invite you to come to the school for a day and talk to people. I have just spent a semester making a video on school violence. You can come watch it. Honestly come to LS for a day. We know your not a teacher anyway so it wont be hard to get a day off. Do hookers make their own hours?”
First off, you’re the one sitting at home by yourself on Saturday night, so umm, let me guess. You are a band geek and no one likes you? I live 1500 miles from my ‘rents, someplace nice, sunny, and warm. Unlike you I have a longterm meaninggful relationship with a “man”, and my dear, we do not call it “fucking”. Another thing you don’t seem to gather is that if you are a prostitute, you can’t be very fat or you wouldn’t work. Shows your lack of logical thinking right now. I actually get along with most people I meet, I smile, they smile we talk, and can have cordial conversations because, I unlike you don’t spout off on crap I have no idea about. You are very obviously too “little and immature” to grasp these concepts.
But lets get back to you… Band geek. You are making a video, so that means like video club type shit. I know in high school we all thought they were big losers, why- because they were kids just like John. All fucked up. Bet you are too frail to play sprots. Even if you wanted to your Mommy wouldn’t let you. Bet you get picked on a lot because you are a little prick, also bet you are a suck up to your teachers, and they don’t even like you. We usually can’t stand little assholes like yourself!
By the way. you are a terrible reader of people. You should take Phych classes (but not from Danny). I am so far from Republican you have no idea. The only thing I agree with is the death penalty. There are some people (like John) that cannot be fixed, and if it cannot be promised that they will never kill another human being again, they have no purpose here on this earth. I am pro gun control, pro abortion, pro gay marriage, but the murdering of innocent children in schools has GOT TO END. It is way to common and is an epidemic.
Catriona
Feb 17, 2008 at 7:58 am
Hi Dan.
First of al Aspies is an affectionate name given to people with Asperger’s by people with Asperger’s not offensive at all. People without Asperger’s are called Neuro Typicals or NTs.
By anger at the world I really meant justifiable anger at the world due to being bullied and misunderstood. Especially at the age John was high school can be a very cruel environment at the best of times and add AS to the mix it is toxic.
Laurie
Feb 17, 2008 at 11:48 am
Thank you Catriona for educating us. I had no idea so many prisons were filled with AS, not to mention what it must feel like to have this, what should I call it, this affliction? I am sure it has its positive sides as well, but our society banishes all that is different so therefore any positives are cancelled out.
Maybe if we weren’t so focused on murder, guns, brutality, pedophiles, rape, and on and on, some would not find their glory? If we get headlines by committing acts of brutality, why not join so we can have our 15 minutes of fame?
Brian
Feb 17, 2008 at 6:24 pm
hi ladies and dan and jen,
Ok i really dont wanna go back to the whole guess about each others lives things because we have no way of knowing. Im gonna tell you that i made a video from a class, that its pro choice not pro abortion you godless baby killing monster, and that there are fat hookers (your mom), also that Dan is right and i will no longer waste my time insulting you because you are really not worth it. Everybody here disagrees with you and that is enough. Catriona thank you for giving us insight and Laurie however I think we can all agree that John didn’t do this for fifteen minutes of fame he did this because he was a very sickly person. I feel really bad for him that he was this far gone. Does any body know when the trial is? By the way Dan your always right and very sophisticated
Dan
Feb 18, 2008 at 12:33 am
Aspies, NTs…..I worry about “us and them” labels. Typical, normal, whatever you want to call it, normal is an elusive idea. Sometimes a valuable group identity becomes label ghetto if it lacks depth of understanding.
One young man I work with wanted very badly to be part of a sophisticated and competitive program with no provision for anyone with special needs. He told me he’d just have to “inhabit the island of normal” and he did.
This boy also intructed peers to tell him to “shut up” when he ran off at the mouth. While I got his point, he really did have an attitude that he deserved to be spoken to like that. It devalued him. He deserved heart-felt, thoughtful communication just like everyone else. He was due no less because it was his tendency to obsess. We had some “normals” who were abrasive, some who spoke more than their share, some who bulldozed over others, yet “shut up” would have never been acceptible.
I worry that labels can lead to oversimplification. Also excuses for both “sides.”
Not really taking issue with “Aspies,” just wondering what the deeper ramifications are.
Jen
Feb 18, 2008 at 10:39 am
“hi ladies and dan and jen,
Ok i really dont wanna go back to the whole guess about each others lives things because we have no way of knowing. Im gonna tell you that i made a video from a class, that its pro choice not pro abortion you godless baby killing monster, and that there are fat hookers (your mom), also that Dan is right and i will no longer waste my time insulting you because you are really not worth it. Everybody here disagrees with you and that is enough.”
You just did, and planty of people do dearie. Grow, up, and I see everything I said proved to be correct ;)
Laurie
Feb 18, 2008 at 11:01 am
Jen - pretty sad that you get satisfaction from that. Who is that ‘woman’ behind the curtain?
Jen
Feb 18, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Not sure Laurie, hun. Don’t see anyone behind a curtain… Unless you are…
brian
Feb 19, 2008 at 1:28 am
Hi jen
you know what ill make your entire day
ill tell you all of what you said is right? i bet you just squirted all over the floor right? Now i am proposing we all join dans conversation and put aside our differences to the greater good of this conversation and we debate about that? Anybody second that?
Jen
Feb 20, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Brian,
No, I don’t agree with that. I don’t agree with Dan and with how misguided both him and you are reguarding Odgren. So if you need “squirting”, as you call it, go do it on your own, in your bedroom, reading your dirty magazines dear.
Brian Hillside
Feb 21, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Can you people drop the pointless debate and instead tell me what Odgren will get for this crime by the court?
I hope he dosent get any jail or prison time. Its wrong to lock people away.
so….tell me now….
Jen
Feb 21, 2008 at 5:05 pm
What he gets is all going to depend on what the jury decides. If he is convicted of first degree murder, jail time. Basically he is going to jail, unless his lawyer can prove not guilty by reason of mental defect. Unfortunately, his lawyer is making a huge mess of everything, and being a pain in the ass. The judge also does not seem to like him, and has not been ruling in his favor…
Jen
Feb 21, 2008 at 5:06 pm
What he gets is all going to depend on what the jury decides. If he is convicted of first degree murder, jail time. Basically he is going to jail, unless his lawyer can prove not guilty by reason of mental defect. Unfortunately, his lawyer is making a huge mess of everything, and being a pain in the ass. The judge also does not seem
brian
Feb 21, 2008 at 6:53 pm
yeah. His laywer is shapiro i forget his first name but he doesnt seem to be doing a good job at all. And John had like an outburst in the courtroom last time he was there and he is pretty screwed right now. What the debate is somehwat at this point. Is whether or not he should be put in jail or a mental facility
Brian Hillside
Feb 22, 2008 at 10:39 am
ok, thanks for the info you guys.
To bad that the judge dont like him.
So, I guess he is being held in a “juvenile-jail” right now.
Maybe its just me, but John did this act for more than 1 year ago.
And he still have not been sentenced? And he is still in jail?
what happened to the right to have a speedy trial?
In western europe you can only be held in jail for about 3 months. (not always true, but almost always the case)
I dont like what I see in this case, are the court trying to wait it out for John to get older so that it will be more easy to give him a long sentence?
Dont you want to see him released and the case dismissed? huh????
Trench
Feb 22, 2008 at 10:42 am
No, I want to see him go to jail for a long time. He killed somebody and his Asperger’s had nothing to do with it.
Dan
Feb 22, 2008 at 1:26 pm
His Aspergers has nothing to do with committing the murder or his sentencing? Certainly he should go away for a long time, perhaps for life if that’s what it takes to protect society from him, but to say Asperger’s had nothing to do with it reduces the chances we’ll hold others accountable. If we’re going to have people among us who cannot have expectations communicated in a “normal” way, we are responsible for making sure they function as we expect them to. We held this kid to different standards until it led to murder. Clearly that didn’t work. Will kids with Asperger’s who poke people with sharp objects and bring blades to school have contact with the police as the result of this case? I hope so. James Aleson payed for our flexible standards for someone with Special needs.
The penalty can be seperate from dissecting the causes of the situation. We dismiss the Aspergers because we’re afraid it will lessen his sentence. But somehow the adults in his life failed to communicate John’s resonsibilities to him. We need to understand this situation not for John but for James, who paid for our system’s inadequacies.
Trench
Feb 22, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Dan, if you go to my other website that I linked to above you’ll see that Odgren had a fascination with forensics and bragged that he thought he could have pulled off the perfect crime. Among other evidence I posted about it leads me to believe that this crime was premeditated and I think that his Aspergers should in no way influence sentencing.
Dan
Feb 22, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I agree about sentencing. He’s a dangerous kid who has clearly shown one of his Apsperger’s-typical obsessions to be violence. His life of violence led him to this.
My point is more that, with a kid who is by definition incapable of connecting actions and consequences in a typical way and who has expressed and acted on an obsession with violence, society holds responsibility. It’s like when a repeat and remorseless predator finishes a jail term and we put him on the streets to offend again. We can call him “responsible,” but that’s only an easy route for us. We know pretty well what he will do.
I guess I am saying that I blame society when certain people offend and they were known to us. There are pathologies. We award “choice” to people who are not really free to choose but are compelled. It’s why we have an insanity defense, because we recognise certain people are compelled beyond choice.
I am just so pissed that this boy was left to make choices. he was not capable of choices. He’d proven that. It’s a cop out. He should have gone to jail for assault and possession long before he was free to kill a boy. We structured the rules, but the school didn’t follow them. They were in place to protect innocent kids, but they weren’t used. Isn’t ignoring those rules blameworthy too?
Dan
Feb 22, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I’m picturing a two panel comic: a doctor and a slavering psycho-stereotype patient. A young intern and a kitchen knife block stand before the patient. The doctor hands the patient a chef’s knife and says “OK, Billy, where does this go?” Billy sheaths the blade in the young intern and the doctor sadly shakes his head and decides Billy isn’t quite ready for the outside yet.
Who are we to take chances with kids’ lives like this?
Trench
Feb 22, 2008 at 2:43 pm
We structured the rules, but the school didn’t follow them. They were in place to protect innocent kids, but they weren’t used. Isn’t ignoring those rules blameworthy too?
Oh I wholeheartedly agree. Not only the school but also Odgren’s parents should be held responsible as well since the parents were the ones who let him have an extensive knife collection.
Dan
Feb 22, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I am guilty of often gravitating toward professional responsibility over parental responsibility. You would not believe how often I;ve met clue-free parents.
These parents did seem to know something needed to be done, but looked to the school to do it. Some parents of students with special needs do foist it off on the school.
Trench
Feb 22, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Agreed. But Aspergers or not I would have never let my son have a knife collection at that age.
Dan
Feb 22, 2008 at 3:51 pm
You would “never let my son have a knife collection.” Parents do not seem to know how to “not let” things happen. Many do not know they can simply pick up the knife collection and lock it in their trunk for disposal. they think they must reason or coerce. This is all part of our problem with treating teens like adults when they look like adults. Treating teens like adults causes them to lose valuable limitations and valuable forgiveness.
Knives are pretty cool right now. I take them off kids all the time. You would not believe how closely they know the size and concealment laws. Knives are marketed to kids in clever and attractive formats. Concealed in belt buckles, necklaces.
brian
Feb 23, 2008 at 11:31 am
Yeah as a high school student i agree with dan in this. I dont think my school should be held accountable and i will stick by that and debate it. I admit that i have bias. But that isnt here or there. What i do want to say is that this kid had a liscence and therefore could drive and buy things. And he could have easily bought knives without his parents knowing and hid them or anything. And can i just get your sources where he had the knife collection? I havent heard anyting about that. And also i dont know what you guys are picturing but just to clear up the water it was a kitchen knife but it wasnt one of those huge ones, it was pretty small like the type you could use to cut and apple or something along those lines? You know what im talking about?
Dan
Feb 23, 2008 at 12:15 pm
A paring knife? hmm… So it wasn’t even some fancy hunting knife like he’d written about.
I am generalizing too much about your school probably. Probably it comes down to one counselor and two teachers. But there were indicators for a long time, and the school system needs to be looked at critically (criticized) when individuals in the system mess up this badly.
Got any idea why knives are so cool, Brian? I tend to notice it’s either a street thing or sometimes an emo thing. What do you think?
Hey, you didn’t jump on me for saying parents can just invade their kids. I’m surprised. I really think parents need to know everything going on in a kid’s life. Kids shouldn’t be left alone with their stresses and trials. But at the same time, kids are by their very nature breaking away from parents to find independence. It’s tricky.
Kids in a sense “earn” freedoms. They build trust with parents so that parents can guage maturity, thus keeping kids safe from mistakes that are too big. Those freedoms (late nights, cars, wandering around unsupervised, less noodging for homework and chores) are not a natural right when a kid hits a certain age or height or whatever they think. I mean…..I cannot believe John had a car!
Jen
Feb 24, 2008 at 3:58 pm
It has been very widely reported that John himself told fellow classmates that he had a knife collection in case tey needed it for “props” in a video or school play.
A neighbor in Princeton also saw John walking through the woods all summer long carrying a Machete. Parents have a responsibility when having a child like John to keep a close eye on what he is doing. Hey they want special services for him during the school year during all school hours, then during the summer, let him roam free and be a menace to society. Mr. and Mrs. Odgren should also be on trial here. They have done a very poor job and owe many explanations for their double standards.
Jen
Feb 24, 2008 at 4:06 pm
“Trench
Feb 22, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Dan, if you go to my other website that I linked to above you’ll see that Odgren had a fascination with forensics and bragged that he thought he could have pulled off the perfect crime. Among other evidence I posted about it leads me to believe that this crime was premeditated and I think that his Aspergers should in no way influence sentencing.”
I also agree with Trench here. What he is saying is true.
#1. Aspergers is a VERY MILD form of Autism, if you weren’t fully aware of the disease, you might never be aware of the autism link.
#2. People with Aspergers are no more likely to kill than anyone with any other ailment. If they usee this as a defense, they are only going to be bringing down the community of people that suffer from Aspergers Disease. Again a pretty selfish choice to make.
But why at this time would John, his parents, or defense attorney, decide to be unselfish. They have decided that it is best if John has “No memory” of what happened… what a load of garbage. But they are the ones just digging themselves in deeper and deeper. Maybe right into a grave for 3.
Dan
Feb 24, 2008 at 5:59 pm
To say Aspergers is “very mild” is deceptive. It is in fact pervasive. It is sometimes refered to as the milder of the Autistic Spectrum Disorders because it generally impacts functioning far less than autism. “Milder” means it includes vocal speech and doesn’t include compulsive rocking, headbanging, keening, humming, fluttering hands. It’s definitely harder to fit in when you do those things and can’t talk.
People often confuse IQ with functioning. Just because a person has a normal or above IQ doesn’t mean they function effectively, or as we’ve seen, make competent choices.
In a neurological disorder such as Asperger’s, aspects are literally hard wired into the brain. One of these aspects is obsessive interest. To take a kid for whom human connection is not innate, to know of and fail to redirect his obsessive interest in violence, and then leave him free to make choices, is negligent.
Catriona, Aspies advocate, says a disproportionate number of people with Asperger’s are in prison. That means there are victims too. Sounds like a social phenomenon we should take seriously.
brian
Feb 25, 2008 at 10:11 pm
im not gonna get into a fight about aspergers because aside from a cousin who has it i dont know anything about it. But what i do wanna say is that when people commit crimes such as killing somebody it fucks them up pretty bad and they could easily repress it. It makes no sense for him to lie about it. Everybody knows that he did it.
brian
Feb 26, 2008 at 8:30 am
in case anybody here wants to check this out and maybe sign it
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/681310220
Jen
Feb 26, 2008 at 6:21 pm
DAN- I think you misread…
I said, “Aspergers is a VERY MILD form of Autism”, not, “Aspergers is “very mild”. So you might want to be careful who you are calling deceptive there. The statement made was indicating that if you didn’t know a person with Asperger’s or anything about the illness, you would never have any idea about the link to Autism. When people do hear of the link they automatically think of people who can’t speak, who are in their own worlds, who rock back and forth, etc. That is why I said this is an extremely MILD form of AUtism, as those characteristics usually aren’t present.
Jen
Feb 26, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Something that might also intrest you besides all of the negatives about Asperger’s is that a while back, studies were done in California’s Silicone Valley, where the development of all of the major computer technology occurred. They found a very large proportion of people (mostly men) living there that had Aspergers. The traits were extremely intelligent, but not really liking to work with people. Then those professionals had their own kids there and had more kids with Asperger’s. So please remember that they can do positive things for society, so blaming the murder on John’s illness is a cop out.
Laurie
Feb 26, 2008 at 8:02 pm
In my opinion, I don’t think anyone is blaming Asperger’s in itself. That, coupled with obvious other family issues, were probably a big contributor at least that is my understanding. Usually, no one reason is motivation for why people murder or abuse another person. In my mind, anyone who murders or abuses another person is mentally ill. Lots of mentally ill people here in these United States.
We cannot ever know for sure what that person was thinking, or what contributed to the situation, because we are not that person so therefore we are making asumptions, unless we have walked in that persons shoes or they choose to tell us honestly. When someone has asperger’s, communication is difficult.
In any case, people do bad things, sometimes good people do bad things. We all have to pay consequences, and until we have a better system in place, a lot of people will suffer because of the unfairness of this system. John should go to a safe facility - safe for him and safe for us.
brian
Feb 27, 2008 at 8:57 pm
good call to laurie
B.Hillside
Feb 29, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Laurie wrote: until we have a better system in place, a lot of people will suffer because of the unfairness of this system.
So you are saying that the Jail/Prison system is unfair and should be abolished or redesigned?
brian
Mar 1, 2008 at 2:52 pm
i dont want to speak for her but what i think she was saying was that it does need some changes. There are so many unfair trials and wrongs with the judiciary system. And also when a kid like John who obviousl is not fit to be in a prison is sent away there is obviously flaws
Trench
Mar 1, 2008 at 7:20 pm
He’s obviously not fit for society since he you know, KILLED SOMEONE, so what better place than jail.
brian
Mar 2, 2008 at 1:28 am
a place for mentally unstable people.
B.Hillside
Mar 2, 2008 at 6:33 am
There is a text in the bible that goes something like this: “do not cast judgement on anyone, and you will not yourself be judged”
its a pretty well known part, im sure you have heard it before sometime.
Trench
Mar 2, 2008 at 12:21 pm
There’s an even more well known part of the Bible that say ‘Thou shall not kill’.
Laurie
Mar 2, 2008 at 9:32 pm
B.Hillside - Right now the hot topic, (and Legislative directives and target of society’s urge for blood revenge), goes to the sex offenders. A few years ago it was all the drug dealers who were sent to prison, even minor infractions could get you a few years - now they are being let out of prison by many states, to make room for the sex offenders. We have a shift in who we feel is dangerous enough to send to prison and keep there. With the de-institutionalization of the mentally ill that occurred many years ago, one option to resolve the crimes they commit has been prison. And then of course, there are the various ethnic groups and all those reason as to why they are in prison.
But, we must ask ourselves what the purpose of prison is, especially in a case like this.
anonymous
Mar 3, 2008 at 6:03 pm
stop
brian
Mar 3, 2008 at 6:21 pm
you stop
Jen
Mar 4, 2008 at 12:43 am
Wikipedia defines prison as the following:
“A prison, penitentiary, or correctional facility is a place in which individuals are physically confined or interned and usually deprived of a range of personal freedoms. Prisons are conventionally institutions, which form part of the criminal justice system of a country, such that imprisonment or incarceration is a legal penalty that may be imposed by the state for the commission of a crime.
In popular parlance of many countries, the term gaol (jail) is considered synonymous with prison, although legally these are often distinct institutions: typically jails are intended to hold persons awaiting trials or serving sentences of less than one year, whereas prisons host prisoners serving longer sentences.
A criminal suspect who has been charged with or is likely to be charged with a criminal offense may be held on remand in prison if he or she is denied, refused or unable to meet conditions of bail, or is unable to post bail. This may also occur where the court determines that the suspect is at risk of absconding before the trial, or is otherwise a risk to society. A criminal defendant may also be held in prison while awaiting trial or a trial verdict. If found guilty, a defendant will be convicted and may receive a custodial sentence requiring imprisonment.”
Sounds exactly like the right place for John. Heck if he goes to prison, he will be guaranteed more rights than the american public. He will get three square meals a day. He will get free health care and medication provided by the lovely state of Massachusetts. He will have the chance to visit his parents, unlike James, probably even be able to watch tv. So prison sounds like a cakewalk, except for the fact that he is such a wimp in real life he WILL become someone’s little boy toy… There is no doubt that he has committed a crime. He KILLED another human being any way you look at it. That is what and who prisons are for.
Jen
Mar 4, 2008 at 12:48 am
B.Hillside are you a moron? Haven’t you heard of the Ten Commandments? What the hell Religion are you? Let me guess…Morman? Born-Again? Good Lord… Get a grip…
Ten Commandments are a bit moree importantand well known than your little quote that you are chosing to apply here and there to defend a murderer. If you want to use that then we could say the church has no right to denounce abortion, the death penalty, etc. Killers do what you want… Think about it kiddo. Go back to Sunday school.
Jen
Mar 4, 2008 at 12:50 am
Where the hell is Danno? Missed running him down… Not as all mighty as he thought, I guess? Poor old man… Maybe he is seeing his shrink!
Mr hillside
Mar 4, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Well, I dont belive that jail/prison is the dream life that you are trying to make it sound like, jen.
We should also keep in mind that this guy lived pretty much the american teenage-dreamlife, with a very nice suburban home among many other things.
Trench
Mar 4, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Then he killed James Alenson. Time for prison.
Jen
Mar 4, 2008 at 5:08 pm
So what he lived the dreamlife? I don’t care… That should make it even worse. John’s parents didn’t abuse him. They didn’t starve him. Sexually molest him. Maybe he needs to get a taste of it inside prison so he can feel some pain. I have 0 sympathy brian hillside
Dan
Mar 4, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Oh, that’s what it is about your posts, that extra nutty fervor, the compulsive outlash toward kids. You’re a bit of a sadist, always fantasizing about kids in pain.
Even abused, starved and molested kids must obey the law. But if we expect a starved kid to not steal food, we better feed him. If we expect a molested kid not to become a molester, we better treat him. Otherwise we’re just setting it up to enjoy our pitchfolk waving indignation when they do.
What we have here is a kid who cannot connect actions to consequences without explicit instruction being permitted to research, celebrate, write about, buy, own, carry, and flaunt weapons as well as, safely and without repercussions, carry out trial assaults.
Laurie
Mar 4, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Very nicely said….kudos Dan.
Dan
Mar 4, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Well, she said she missed me. Didn’t want to disappoint her.
brian
Mar 4, 2008 at 10:32 pm
agreed with dan also a few things
one) jen dont use wikipedia as a resource. your retarded. and if you were a teacher you would know better
two) going way back you said that you lived somewhere nice and sunny and then you said you lived in rhode island make up a better lie
three) dont attack personal religions not cool
four) i was thinking about what he John did today. Lets look at it. He brought a knife to school, killed a kid, infront of another kid (my math teachers son a sweet kid btw), then ran and confessed, and sat there freaking out. So he obviously either knew he was gonna get caught and didnt care or wasnt able to figure out that he was gonna get caught. The kids brain is messed up he obviously isn’t fit for jail
five) jen how old are you you attack young people and old people just shut the hell up
Trench
Mar 4, 2008 at 10:34 pm
I think he’ll fit in that 5×5 cell just fine.
Jen
Mar 4, 2008 at 11:20 pm
I agree Trench, these fuckin nutballs can go sell crazy somewhere else!
Jen
Mar 4, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Brian, dear little child, ever heard the phrase “Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones?”
I am guessing not as you can’t even state you sentence correctly while trying to tell me that I am a moron. Well lets try again for little old you:
As described by Merrium-Webster a prison is:
“Main Entry: 1pris·on
Pronunciation: \ˈpri-zən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin prehension-, prehensio act of seizing, from prehendere to seize — more at get
Date: 12th century
1: a state of confinement or captivity
2: a place of confinement especially for lawbreakers; specifically : an institution (as one under state jurisdiction) for confinement of persons convicted of serious crimes”
Now Bri-bri, if that doesn’t clear it up for you they have a special little kids scection that you can go to and investigate more. Maybe then you can learn something. Maybe Danny-boy can read it to you in case you have a hard time blending your words together, they are awful big.
What we have is John is a fucking loser who deserves to be someone’s little bitch in prison. Hopefully they will beat his fucking head into a wall or shank him pretty fast to put him out of his misery. There, there’s my compassion for you!!!
Cheers!!!
By the way I don’y live in Rhode Island dumbass! You have no attention span Bri-bri! Bet your studies are lacking… I said 1500 miles away, take a geography course sweety pie. I am 27 and I can say whatever I feel like saying. Look back and read dearie, I was hear long before you. You want a save the Odgren sight go make one somewhere else. This isn’t the place you little assrocket…
Is Danno your secret shrink that molests you on the side? Bet you like that… Tell your parents they can sue, then Dan can get closer to John emotionally and go to prison. Sounds like great fun!
Dan
Mar 5, 2008 at 12:43 am
Ew. Jen’s getting too creepy to even play with anymore.
Mr hillside
Mar 5, 2008 at 9:42 am
She is a few yards outside the field, so to speak.
Trench
Mar 5, 2008 at 9:52 am
Speaking of yards that’s where Odgren is going to be getting his exercise. The prison yard.
Dan
Mar 6, 2008 at 12:36 am
Oh I’d love it if I worked with Brian. He’s a burgeoning young filmmaker, strong, stands up for his ideals, willing to admit when he’s been wrong and apologize, not afraid to err on the side of sympathy. I keep wanting to confront him on language though. Retard? On a discussion where you’re defending compassion for a special ed student? Slow down a little and consider your words. it’ll serve you when as you get older. If you want to be a filmmaker, relationships and good impressions will be as important as skill.
Jen
Mar 6, 2008 at 2:52 am
He never will be… Way too much of a loser. Not to mention, you molesting him will cause him a lifetime of anguish and he will also stab someone several times “by accident”. Hopefully by the time he does it though, they will have reinstated the death penalty. Maybe firing squad or hmmm… gass chamber. Even better, ever seen the Green Mile? Maybe put him up in one of those old school electric chairs w/o the water under the cap. Poor little Brian… ZZZZZ…. ZZZZ…ZZZZZ…. Might take quite awhile. Nothing to harsh, cruel or unusual for you nutcase. This of course will be after you are passed around in prison and they have already found out you have been Dan’s little bitch, so you will work out fine there.
But oh yeah, John will still be alive, albiet locked up for life :) You would just be dead, having earthworms eating through your cardboard box…
Jen
Mar 6, 2008 at 2:53 am
Odgren will definat