MyCrimeSpace

29 opinions for Overcharged?

• pareidoliac
  Apr 29, 2008 at 10:06 am

  I agree… I can’t imagine she would get away with claims such as ‘enough is enough’ constituting an attempt to stop the beating. Further, she would clearly have been party to the entire planning of the beating.

• navigator
  Apr 29, 2008 at 9:20 pm

  And FYI, they all pleaded “not Guilty” today in court. LOL… Please… it’s on VIDEO!!! HOW ON EARTH do they think they are going to ge out of this as NOT GUILTY!!!!

• truthteller
  Apr 29, 2008 at 10:47 pm

  It is outrageous that none of these girls have any remorse and don’t even appear to understand that they did anything wrong, and the attorneys are out of their minds if they think that they can get these girls off with a smack on the wrist.

  Going by the actual definition of kidnapping, it is not an inappropriate charge. It would be one thing to be hearing remorse and humility from these girls. The fact that they think they can plead not guilty, when the whole thing is on video tape, and then just wait for it all to go away is remarkable to me. What kind of sheltered, privileged world are these girls living in? It is time for a major wake up call, perhaps even a life long one…after all, if they get away with it now, who is to say that the next person that pisses this posse off doesn’t wind up dead?

• Rachel Pirry, Glasgow, Scotland.
  Apr 30, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  “It is outrageous that none of these girls have any remorse and don’t even appear to understand that they did anything wrong”…..well, maybe their seeming lack of comprehension’s got something to do with them being *juveniles* and not *adults*. That’s some sick, mixed up system you guys have in America; maybe some day you’ll realise that it’s your society that’s got some issues with its value system, and not the kids that grow up within it and then get treated as adults whenever an elected public official come police officer decides that they need some self-serving publicity to demonstrate how hard they are on crime.

• Trench
  Apr 30, 2008 at 5:43 pm

  Oh yeah, kids in the UK are so much more well behaved.

  http://tinyurl.com/4ks4f9

• navigator
  Apr 30, 2008 at 6:15 pm

  LOL Trench! Rachel, this WORLD needs to come to terms with the desensitization that we hammer into our youth daily with violent video games (that are supposed to be sensored but we all know that adults can buy them for kids-just like beer)/ violent tv shows (not to mention the over kill of sexual content - no wonder why so many teens getting pregnant WORLD WIDE)/ the fact that MANY offenders get off with a slap on the wrist, sent back to society to do it again and again… Kids think this behavior is NORMAL and have no reason NOT to do it themselves. We need to stop this NOW. We have got to show these children that WE CAN enforce this because it will only get worse if we do not. If they want to do adult crimes or harm, they do adult time.

• Laurie
  Apr 30, 2008 at 6:24 pm

  What a bunch of garbage. Kids desensitized by violence?

  We have always had violence in our society in one shape or form. Kids cartoons back in the day were extremely violent. Snuff movies…true detective magazines….

  Give me a break - parenting is the key. What have the parents been teaching their children? This is not new - it just seems that more of this is happening because we have access to global information, and there are now a lot more people.

  But then again, maybe some are just born evil? I do believe they have proven that serial murderers brains are different than the so called ‘normal’ people.

  You heard about the guy in Australia that held his daughter captive? For over 20 years? Well guess what, Australia was founded as a penal colony. So, I guess punishment does work, eh?

• navigator
  Apr 30, 2008 at 9:49 pm

  Well, it is obvious that Mercedes mother doesn’t know how to raise her kid… that is a fact, she believes that this was no big deal and has passed this belief to Mercedes. And from what I have been hearing in alot of these related blogs, there are alot of other parents or potential parents out there who think this is no big deal either. Parents need to teach kids respect and compassion for others, and if they teach that this is no big deal, then OF COURSE this will happen again and again. But if society did not condone violence in every form of media and bombard kids from every angle with violence, it would help the NORMAL parent in teaching what is right and wrong!!

• Rachel Pirry, Glasgow, Scotland.
  May 1, 2008 at 2:26 pm

  Trench, there will always be isolated examples of criminality within any society. However, sensationalism aside, it’s a simple fact that despite the US imprisoning a far greater percentage of its population than the UK, and despite your society entertaining far harsher penalties for your youth than British society does (for example, life without parole for crimes committed by people that couldn’t legally vote, get married or drink alcohol), our rates of serious crime are much, much lower than yours. Sooner or later maybe, as a society, you’ll realise that demonising kids like the ones in this case, charging them as adults and presenting them with the possibility of life imprisonment for what, frankly, amounts to no more than a nasty incident of bullying, is total overkill, and just a way of avoiding dealing with the real injustices and real problems in your society.

• Trench
  May 1, 2008 at 4:12 pm

  Isolated incident? I don’t think so. And it’s funny because most of my friends from the UK wish that the British courts would sentence juvenile offenders to harsher sentences because whatever they’re doing now is obviously not enough. I’m not saying that the US is any worse or better than the UK but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

  And if you really want to play oneupsmanship at least the US won our independence from England. How’s that coming along for you Scotland?

• Rachel Pirry, Glasgow, Scotland.
  May 2, 2008 at 1:39 pm

  Trench, nothing about the emotive and isolated examples you’ve focused upon, or the questionable anecdotal opinion you’ve expressed changes the fact that your society is significantly more violent and crime-ridden than the one I live in, despite having greatly more draconian stance on punishment of offenders in general, and your treatment of juveniles as adults in particular. I don’t rely upon a biased and limited sample of my US-based friends, or even upon individual and sensationalised news reports, to tell me this; it’s right there, in agreed statistics published by reputable bodies, such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and even the US’s own Justice Department. You can go on blaming the boogyman if you find comfort in doing that; it just doesn’t bear analysis in the cold light of day, though. As for the English; well, coming from an Irish/Swedish heritage (born in Scotland), though, I may be less pre-disposed to blame my ills on

• Trench
  May 2, 2008 at 2:22 pm

  I hardly consider Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International reputable organizations considering they want a convicted cop killer freed but that’s another topic. Maybe you’re right. Maybe the US isn’t doing enough. Maybe we should have cameras everywhere and live in an Orwellian state. Now which country does that again?

• Rachel Pirry, Glasgow, Scotland.
  May 2, 2008 at 2:53 pm

  The thing is, Trench, your comment on the comparative history of Scotland and the US with England isn’t actually a relevant issue within the context of the current discussion; it’s merely an ad hominem insult of no consequence to the issue being discussed. Similarly, nothing about the emotive and isolated examples you’ve tried to focus upon in preference to the big picture, or the unverifiable anecdotal opinion you’ve expressed in the form of a hypothetical straw-poll opinion of your British friends, actually changes the fact of what I’ve said. Your society is at this time demonstrably and significantly more violent and crime-ridden than the one I live in, despite having a greatly more draconian stance on the punishment of offenders in general, and the treatment of juveniles (whom in the US are regularly charged as adults) in particular. I don’t rely upon a biased and limited sample of my presumably like-minded US-based friends, or upon individual and sensationalised news reports, to tell me this; this information is freely available, in agreed statistics published by reputable bodies such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and even the US Justice Department’s own figures on the extraordinarily high levels of the US prison population. The US, for example, is now the only country that still sentences juveniles to life in prison without the possibility of parole (essentially ‘death by prison’, for kids); other countries that did so until relatively recently included luminaries in the field of human rights field such as Israel, Tanzania, and South Africa. The main difference between those countries that did so until recently and the US, however, isn’t the fact that they at least no longer entertain the practice, it’s the statistics; all of the other countries that had people serving such sentences had actual numbers incarcerated that way in the low single figures; the US, by contrast, currently has around 2400 prisoners serving life sentences without parole for offences committed whilst they were juveniles. Feel any safer tonight your side of the pond?

  Getting back to the specifics of this case, my view is that treating 6 teenage cheerleaders that engaged in some bullying (not kidnapping, not false imprisonment - just ask Patty Hearst or the family of Daniel Pearl what the difference between what the defendants in this case did and those offences as committed by adults is, if in any doubt) for the wider violence inherent in US society, as some of those involved in the prosecution appear to be doing, just doesn’t bear rational analysis in the cold light of day. Whilst the kids that are the defendants in this case might provide a convenient set of scapegoats for lawmakers and internet tough-talkers to point at and vilify as wholly abhorrent and undeserving of more civilised resolution, the fact is that, whilst nasty, what the alleged perpetrators in this case did just wasn’t all that bad (bad? - in my opinion, yes; bad enough for them to be sent to an adult prison if convicted and when first charged? – absolutely no, not even close). Proportional punishment appropriate for juveniles was what was required in this case, and that’s not what’s been delivered. If you want to create 8 future criminals rather than fix what is at present a rectifiable issue of unacceptable adolescent behaviour, go right ahead and send these six girls and two boys to an adult prison; excuse me, though, if I don’t sing Land of The Free in salute at the rationale and wisdom of that approach.

• Rachel Pirry, Glasgow, Scotland.
  May 2, 2008 at 3:01 pm

  PS: Don’t know how I managed to post two responses above, I only meant to leave one. The comment at 1:39 wasn’t what I meant to say or wanted to post, it was what I wrote at first then had a read through and decided it didn’t contain what I wanted to get across; the one at 2:53 is what I intended to post.

• xxqsme70
  May 2, 2008 at 6:39 pm

  Trench for president!!!

• Mary Ma Gill
  May 3, 2008 at 1:48 am

  Rachel,
  I’ll hand it to you-, you’ve got some language skills there, girl! You sure aren’t shy about using them either. You’re obviously pretty good at looking up statistics to back up that high opinion you have of yourself–more power to you, you should be proud and voice your opinion. However, don’t think that this loud and proud, violent, American is too stupid to catch the slurr you cast at our entire society. Although, it’s not like you really worked all that hard to hide it.

  Now y’all can bicker back and forth and site factoids all you want, but it still remains those girls were all old enough to know better. Even at 14, I knew that six on one wasn’t a fair fight and I really can’t see how a potentially serious head injury, loss of sight in one eye and hearing loss “amounts to no more than a nasty incident of bullying”. If that is nothing more than a school yard scrap where you live, I would hate to see what you call true violence.

  Now, perhaps, how did you so eloquently put it, “death by imprisonment” is a trifle harsh. Maybe we should give each of them exactly, lick for lick, what that girl received and call it square. Oops, there is that pesky violent, draconian, value lacking, American spirit raising it’s dang ugly head again. I am curious though, what is vision or hearing worth in Scotland? Tell me, in your Irish-Swedish, born in Scotland opinion, what do you really think should happen? Enlighten me.

• drkel007
  May 3, 2008 at 11:14 pm

  Well, well, well. The Scots are blaming the americans. Nice.

  Where does that leave Victoria. Healing slowly from her physical wounds. Probably always having emotional scars from being betrayed by her friends who set her up for a 6 on one fight where she was knocked unconscious. And, when she woke up, she was beaten some more. And some more. I feel she could easily have been beaten to death.

  Now, we can argue about scotish society, etc etc etc. But, what the hell does that have to do about a girl who was visciously beaten. We must support the victim. That is what is important.

  Next, we punish the perpetrators so this will not happen again. And we make a crime with penalties for anyone who posts criminal activity on the internet. (Kind of an oxymoron, is it not?). But, there has to be a deterant to posting videos of a person getting beaten so that person would even feel more humiliated and beaten when they see it again in cyberspace. Indeed, that was the original intent of the group that beat Lindsay–to post the beating video on the internet.

  I am of scotish descent, but please don’t hate.

  If violence is somehow thwarted from reaching the internet (or at least slowed down in some fashion), then some good might possibly come out of this very tragic affair.

• Steve W
  May 4, 2008 at 1:18 am

  Buncha ugly little whores is what they are. Someone should take em all and slice their throats. Along with their parents. Pleading not guilty??? If they get off with a slap on the wrist, I’ll chip in for anyone that wants to cause some physical damage to them. I think alot of people would. Hey you ugly little bitches, why don’t you come to my town and bring those gay little punk boyfriends with you, see what you get…

• Laurie
  May 4, 2008 at 9:29 am

  Yeah Steve - that’s the answer. Violence on Violence - that will teach ‘em.

  And we wonder why this stuff happens? HA!

• navigator
  May 4, 2008 at 9:29 am

  Steve W. … You are a great example of the reason these girls/boys did what they did. You think that everything should be solved with some form of violent behavior. I want them to be punished, Yes, but I do not believe that showing brutality toward them will solve the isssue though. We do need to be hard on them, because we have shown such a lack in our criminal punishment. Why else would some of these girls and boys LAUGH when put in front of the judge. They have (and many others as well) total disrespect for authority. We need to show ALL criminals that they should fear going to prison, because it is not a vacation vacility for criminals. Hell, they get to work out, watch tv, learn about new ways to do or get away with their crime of choice(… they call it college for criminals) and they get free food…. Great punishment. I wish I had an answer to this, If we gave them solitary confinment maybe, no tv.. no work out… no frills jail… (then they would claim cruelty)… but were they not cruel to the victim, shouldn’t the punishment fit the crime… eye for an eye… you take a life your life ends as well. In this case, solitary confiment for a year with anger management classes and working with victims of violent crimes and their families so they learn what COULD have happened, probation for 5 years working with children from abusive homes (so they don’t turn into abusive parents) and they need to learn compassion. We need to regulate the violent games,movies and music that is SO abundant in this society. Yes, when we were kids we had some violent cartoons and movies… Tom and Jerry and Starwars and Shout at the Devil… WOW!!!! Back then it was 25%violent, maybe a little more or less … but today it is closer to 90% violence in all forms of media, even Disney is getting bad… promoting young girls to take barley nude photos… that is a SEXUAL PREDS dream… soon it will be the he will no longer have to go to child pron sites to get off… he just goes to the Disney channel…

• navigator
  May 4, 2008 at 9:40 am

  Oh, and by the way.. with the new release of Grand Theft Auto… the crime rates should go down, right? ….LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

  I believe it was Laurie who had said that “What a bunch of garbage. Kids desensitized by violence?” have you SEEN this video game… and they are selling it to KIDS…. You can kill people in it…. are you now getting my drift…. Parents can only control what happens when they are around and you can not be with your kids 24/7… and you can only hope you have taught them well. You can not control others kids, they may have this game at their house… they all play it, someone looses and gets pissed off… and soon your kid, who thought it was just a game, has been killed by one who couldn’t tell the difference. This “game” should never have been released…. it is sick and will only promote violent crime further in this country and world wide.

• Laurie
  May 4, 2008 at 12:29 pm

  Navigator - look at the bigger picture.
  Do you think a kid, who has played this video game maybe once or twice, would commit a crime? How would this particular game in and of itself, cause someone to commit violence? How would an exposure to this game, encourage a kid to commit a crime?

  In my opinion, it is not the games’ influence, but the time the kid has to sit around, with no other hobbies, games, or interactions with others - that is to fault here. Where are the parents that allow their kids to play these violent video games?

  Parents must teach their kids respect for life and empathy for others. If people are taught respect for life, (taking care of the tiniest creatures we have on this planet, and everyone and everything in between)
  in a ideal world, these games would not have the popularity they have and would never be created.

  But we live in the ‘real’ world. It is highly unlikely that the kids were wonderful, loving, generous, kind, community minded people to begin with. Chances are they have a dysfunctional family that subjects them to neglect, physical abuse and/or emotional abuse for whatever reason.

  In our quest to stop this type of behavior in our society, the real question becomes, how do we ensure that our children will be taken care of?

  In this particular situation, these girls, all of them, have serious issues that need to be addressed and will follow them for the rest of their life. Hopefully they will get the services they need for healing. That is where our focus should be.

  I can’t imagine the girls who committed the crime will have very rosy futures, if this is how they have learned to resolve their problems.

  Many say serves them right, but I wonder what they have been served in the past, to want to do this to someone else?

  There are no winners in this situation - they have all lost.

• navigator
  May 4, 2008 at 1:59 pm

  Laurie, I can agree to some of what you are saying. The parents need to know what is going on with there kids today… ALL OF THEM… in order for this to change. You are right.. not a perfect world and if we as a society can control just a LITTLE of what influences children today, we can possibly make a difference in some of these childrens lives. I have been on a local newspaper site to where this case took place. The relatives and friends of these boys and girls come on and say that this is normal behavior and want to know what the big deal is. THIS is exactly the reason these kids have turned out the way they are, the parents and community around them think this is normal and are only upset that it has made national news. I understand that this is not an isulated case of a girl getting beatin, but by ALL means I will never say this should be concidered NORMAL behavior! I am trying to raise my daughter to be kind to all she meets, she has been treated by some kids with violent behavior and she has no understanding as to why they act this way. I agree that it is a parents responsibilty to teach compassion, but it could only work in that instance if ALL parents understood that violence does not solve a problem. Some kids are left to learn on their own because of bad parenting, you are right, and they inturn will turn to outside sources to get what knowledge they can and we just FORCE violence on them with all these sick video games, movies, songs… all about violence and taking care of a situation with violence and how rewarding it can be. You get points for murdering a prostitute after you can have sex with her in the … (very graphic)… new grand theft auto. How would you think a kid, whose parents care little about what they do or watch or play, will see women in his future. And this game was one of the highest selling games ever. I am not saying that all our problems are because of media games/movies/songs… I am just saying that if they did not exist.. it would be easier for parents to raise kids to show and feel compassion.

  And you are right - there are NO winners here. These girls were probably raised in abusive and/or mentaly abusive homes. It is the “kick the cat” situation. I can’t take it out on them, I’ll take it out on others around me. Like I said earlier, they need to be in a situation that will teach them compassion that was not learned in childhood or they should not be let back into society until they do.

• Trench Reynolds: DBKP This Week in Crime, May 3 | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
  May 5, 2008 at 12:07 pm

  […] The Florida videotaped teen beating is still reigning supreme over at MyCrimeSpace. This week the controversy continues with one of the teen suspect’s lawyer says that their client has been overcharged. […]

• rfa77
  May 8, 2008 at 10:55 am

  Just for the record - the nut who held his daughter for 20 years is from Austria, which is in Europe, south of Germany. Australia’s on the other side of the globe.

• KC
  May 14, 2008 at 2:29 pm

  It really doesn’t matter where anyone, that posts here, is from. The fact of the matter is, that 8 people conspired (permeditated) an attack on an unsuspecting person, they even cut off the routes of escape, and the had a watch so they they could disperse and monitor the noise level of the crime which was in progress.

  Now, if these conspirators were just two years older they would be legally “adults” and they would have the same if not harsher charges levied against them. I my opinion here, this is a crime and it should be treated as a crime. This is a crime that was well planned and orchestrated to a close to deadly result. The fact the the victim will have permanent sight and hearing damage is a testament to that, not only that but these people who were involve totally disrupted her quality of life.
  Now to the part were none of the girls show remorse, all I can say is, what can you expect? Look at the crime that they committed. As for the look outs and the cameraman? Yes, they are accountable, because they knew about this act and choose to attend the act in person and take part in it. They may not have thrown the blows, but they helped to make sure the blows landed and they didn’t attempt to halt it, and the cameraman saying, “enough is enough,” and continuing to record the crime is not trying to stop anything.

  Now to the regard of harsh or “draconian” sentencing. Those involved in the crime, know that they are minors and were banking on the fact that they were minors to get them off the hook with a slap on the wrist. Age is not a get out of jail free card. The fact they premeditated this atrocity, then trying to play and being minors is ridiculous.

  People know the difference between right and wrong very early, even before your teen years. Age should not play any factor in this case. They performed an intelligent and cunning plan, executed it and then were caught. They should be tried as adults and they should be convicted as adults.
  I would rather have the 16 year old miscreants off the street now, than wait for two years until they are “adults”.

• navigator
  May 15, 2008 at 8:58 pm

  Right on KC!!

• M Ma Gill
  May 15, 2008 at 10:01 pm

  KC,

  I agree with you in large part with most everything you are saying. I think we differ on one point–I think they made a plan and executed it–I just don’t think the consequences ever entered in to their arena of thought. I don’t think they gave any consideration past posting the video.

  I believe they should be given way more than a slap on the wrist, but I don’t feel they should be given a life sentence. What do you think? As for the ones that didn’t land any blows, but were there, I think their crime is only slightly less abhorrent.

  We can blame video games, television, music, any number of media–that isn’t the problem. Bottomline, if our children are not taught, by US, the value of life and respect for themselves and others–this situation could be one any one of us could face, no matter what part of the world you live in. Personally, I think we could all stand a healthy dose of social stigmatism. I remember growing up that a lot of what I would or wouldn’t do stemmed from a) how would I ever explain it to my mother, and b) was I about to do something that would embarass my family.

• navigator
  May 15, 2008 at 10:20 pm

  M MA GILL said “I remember growing up that a lot of what I would or wouldn’t do stemmed from a) how would I ever explain it to my mother, and b) was I about to do something that would embarass my family.”

  Exactly.. we had RESPECT for our families and parents… there is a HUGE lack of that today…. lack of respect for anyone , even thereselves. But then you also have to consider that the role models today have no respect for themselves either.

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